Yin & Yang

Jack-of-all-trades is a moniker that almost doesn’t quite serve actor/writer/musician Donald Glover, known to music fans as Childish Gambino. With just a few weeks until his sold out London shows, Niran and I sat down over hot Ribena for a chat with Childish Gambino about race politics, food and music, Asian girls, and his debut album Camp.

People either get introduced to you as an artist who also does comedy, or as a comedian who now raps. How has the reception differed depending on how people know about either Donald or Childish?

I think in general people accept it. A lot of people don’t try and make it something else. Which I know is a hard thing to do, but people totally get it. Which is why I use a different name. People would have already had preconceived notions if I used Donald Glover rapping. People say “Childish Gambino, it’s a pretty silly name.” I’m like, “yes, I’m pretty silly rapping!” My rapping’s pretty silly, it’s not super serious. It should be silly. So it’s actually worked out okay. People are okay with that, which I’m pretty happy about.

So is Childish Gambino your Sasha Fierce?

(Laughs) Uhh…no. No, it’s not! I guess people do that a lot now, Beyonce’s Sasha Fierce, Lady Gaga’s…what’s the other one?

Joe Calderone.

Yeah! It’s funny, I feel like I’m kinda doing the opposite. No, Childish Gambino is pretty much me; I call myself Donald on the album constantly. Childish Gambino is literally just a name to go by – a pseudonym.

It’s nice that it’s not that contrived ‘now I’m Childish, and now I’m Donald’.

Yeah! “This is Childish doing this interview! Not Donald! If Donald was here he’d be…” (laughs) that’s bullshit isn’t it? With someone like Lady Gaga I like that because she’s like that. That’s her persona to do that weird stuff. And how do you outdo yourself other than make another person? But no, there’s enough silliest around me. The name’s silly enough, and you know I do comedy, so why add another layer of craziness. No. It’s Donald Glover, I just go by Childish Gambino when I play around.

The fans get it, but has it been a battle trying to prove yourself as a serious rapper to your hip hop peers?

Oh totally. Absolutely. It’s still there. And that’s the thing, I wanted to come at it head on. I think I came at it head on, I came at it so head on that people were like “I don’t even think that battle’s there anymore”.

I definitely think that stigma was there, and if I had come out as Donald Glover…It was a good thing that I started rapping a while ago because I feel like a lot of people would’ve had a real problem with it if I had JUST started rapping. It’d seem like it’s some sort of vanity project, because it can be. I feel like sometimes actors just feel like they can rap, and sometimes rappers just feel like they can act. I want people to know that I have an extreme respect for music. It’s not something that I take lightly – I want to get better, I WILL get better. So it helps that I’ve been doing it for 8 years and I already had a fan-base who were there. I didn’t have to do a lot of the footwork because I had my fans to do it for me.

What about on the flipside though, your peers in the TV world? Did you ever have any awkward conversations there?

No, they’re always usually like (raises eyebrows) “heard your album…liked it!” (laughter) that’s usually what it is, as opposed to “oh…you do music?”

That’s the thing; creative people are usually good at lots of things. It’s never usually, “I’m really good at JUST this.” That’s the weird thing if you’re only really good at one thing, usually you’re really good at a lot of things, but I think when people see somebody doing a lot of things they kind of feel bad about themselves. Which I feel like is unfair because I feel like [the ability to do more than one thing well] is in everybody. Everybody can do a bunch of stuff if they really believe in themselves and if they put the time in.

But it’s kind of been an uphill battle, but I like that. I think the good thing is that the hill’s not done. There’s still a lot to go. I feel like I’ve kind of just got there. I feel like hopefully the next record would be even better, and the next record will be even better, and then people will be like “oh yeah, that dude used to do comedy!”

So at the moment you’re just focused on music?

I think you have to. Music moves so much faster than comedy. And it’s such a different world. My comedy special and my album came out the same week. I don’t have to do another comedy hour for probably, three years, if I didn’t want to. I could wait two, three years and people will be fine with it. If I don’t do another album for three years people will be like, “this better be fucking good.” Or they’ll be like, “oh, he fell off. We’re into Childish Hambino who raps twice as good!” (laughs)

You can’t slow down, you can’t sleep because the best in the game right now come out with something regularly. If Adele doesn’t come out with another album for another five years, there’ll be another Adele. She won’t be as good, maybe, but she’ll fill that void.

I had a conversation where we talked about music as a food palette. I feel like Adele’s really good music – good food. It’s like a good fish or something that’s good for you, and it tastes good and stuff. If she’s not there, then McDonalds will be there. It won’t be as good, but people will eat it. So I feel like you have to keep up and give people what they want at that fast pace. Music is definitely the priority right now, I just want to do it well – I don’t want it to be like a vanity project.

I like the whole ‘microwave, disposable food’ thing.

CG: And that’s the thing, people can’t think I’m looking down upon that. I don’t. I like McDonalds sometimes! I went to McDonalds yesterday and I got some fries! It’s not good for you, you shouldn’t eat it every day, but it’s nice to have! I wouldn’t want to hear most of my album in the club. There’s some stuff I wanna hear in the club, I wanna hear Waka in the club – Waka Flocka Flame is my SHIT. I love Waka Flocka. I love 2 Chainz. I love that shit. And honestly, I think 2 Chainz and Waka Flocka are better than McDonalds. I think that they’re not the equivalent musically to McDonalds, I think they’re more like a Philly cheese steak or something, where it’s really good, but it’s bad for you. But it’s really good bad food. So that’s the point. I don’t know what I’m supposed to be yet.

I was just going to ask what type of food you are! But you don’t know yet?

I like a lot of stuff. And I get bored. I think I’ve seen this in my career; I get bored doing one thing. I think a lot of people are fine just doing one thing. I don’t think I’d be okay if I was just doing stand-up. I don’t think I’d be okay just drawing, or just making beats, or just doing music. I would need to do a bunch, and so I feel like that’s kind of reflected in the album. I want to do all that stuff, all the time. And I guess I’m trying to figure out if there’s a way to do that. I guess this album was a good first step.

Camp is an introduction to you for a lot of people over here. What does it say to people from your perspective?

I don’t know much about your hip hop scene over here. From [what we see in the States] it seems like it’s still very grimy. Like Devlin, and that kind of thing. But I guess the big ones that we knew of that translated from over here was The Streets. And I don’t think that my album is that different from The Streets. The Streets is just talking about girls and relationship stuff, and it felt very easy to relate to.

In terms of content, aside from the girls and the jokes, you speak a lot about race. How do you think your content, and your [middle-class] upbringing, challenges the often-limited perception of what it is to be a black rapper?

It definitely speaks to what the majority feels like rap is. I have a big problem with people who say “I like Childish Gambino because he talks proper.” I hate that! I’m just talking the way I grew up, just like Waka talks the way he grew up. In America it’s always a conversation of race, whereas over here [in the UK] it seems to be a conversation of class, which I think is better because it’s more valuable and malleable. I don’t necessarily like the class system, that exists over in America too, but race is a signifier of class over there. So you can be filthy rich and black, and people will treat you like you’re poor still. I guess I always wanted to bring that up with my rap because that was something I always struggled with when I was a kid. And I felt like people were pretending like it was over in hip-hop. Because when Obama came into office people were like “oh, Obama’s in office, racism’s over!” You know, post-Obama, post-racial America. And even smart people want to believe that. People did that in music too, like, ‘oh, Kanye made it? We’ve moved past rap being that!’ and I’m like, no! Most people still see rap as conscious and not conscious. And I know that’s not the case, just as much I know there’s still racism in America. And yes I know that my friends, and smart people know that there’s still race issues going on, but they like to think that they’re not involved in the discussion anymore.

I feel like in a lot of rap, there’s a lot of tourism. When white kids listen to The Clipse, or something like that? It’s a lot of tourism, it feels like it’s an escape and then they come back to their world. I wanted to do something that was literally just my world, and stuff I saw.

Inadvertently, whether you intended to or not, Camp translates across the social border so it must’ve made some people go ‘hold on, what?’

But it was nice! I definitely want people to always like me – I mean, who doesn’t want people to like them? But it’s definitely had a reaction where people either love it or hate it. Which I think is a good thing; it’s either too truthful or people are just angry about certain things I say, so, it’s good.

Personally, I love race discussions because I feel like it’s always the pink elephant in the room…

With the gay stuff, too! I like the fact that ‘camp’ means that over here. When I named it Camp, people said, “you know in the UK that means gay right?” And I said, “yeah I know!”

It’s like, you can’t be gay, and black, and a male. And that discussion is never brought up. [What] really pisses me off is that people like to pretend like rap is this beautiful big place where you can do anything you want, but if I made a song tomorrow about “Donald and his gay best friend. And he’s just gay, and it’s cool” – people lose their shit. People would be pissed. I’d probably lose a lot of fans, and that says a lot. That says a lot about the culture of rap and what rap is. Rap and rock is supposed to be about rebellion but that’s probably the most rebellious thing – talking about that stuff. And I feel like I touched on some of that on the album. I felt like it was a little subversive, and over here I felt like it was a little more in your face because of the name of the album. It’s one of those things – I love talking about race too because it’s interesting and people don’t want to talk about it but I feel like that stuff helps.

Let’s talk about your sense of style. Do you even have anything that you’d say is a personal style? And how important is it?

No, I think it changes a lot. Lately people have been saying “Donald’s really stylish”. When I was getting that I started to be like, “should I start caring about this?” But I don’t want to do that because I think that takes away from other stuff. I don’t want to be spread too thin. I don’t want to spend an hour being like, “how shall I wear this hat?” Na, it should be something that’s comfortable and really expresses me. (Gestures to his outfit) This is perfect, it’s a t-shirt, a sweater. That’s stuff I’m comfortable in. I don’t know, it doesn’t feel very rock and roll. I feel like Kanye, Jay-Z, they should definitely be picking what they wear. Definitely. I feel like me, right now, the appeal is that people feel like they can hang with me, and I feel like I can hang with them. I’m not on this level where I’m like “I have quail every morning, I have sex with zebras in the room!” (laughs) I’m not on that level and I don’t think that’s what people want from me either, so I just try to wear what’s comfortable.

Talking of that, what do you say to the ‘Ye comparisons and the Lil Wayne comparisons?

A lot of people may say that because maybe the stuff that they like about those artists are in my stuff. I mean, they said the same thing about Drake when he came out – they said he sounds just like Ye. Nicki Minaj sounded just like Kim, so you just gotta rise above it. Everybody’s a rip off of someone else! Everyone! That’s just the way it is, because guess what? You’re getting older and people are being born everyday. These kids did not grow up with Michael Jackson or Madonna, or Elvis. They need something that expresses the same thing for them. People like to believe that as they get older, things get shittier with them. No. You get shittier. You get older, you get tired, you get angry, and the world keeps going (laughs). So, you know, I guess the comparisons are there. I don’t see it, but if I did, I don’t think it would help me to be like, “I gotta sound so different!” You just gotta be you.

Is this your first time in London?

Yes it is. I love it, it’s awesome!

[Niran]: Have you been to Chinatown?

No? There’s a Chinatown here?! I didn’t know!

[Niran]: There’s loads of Asian girls there!

Oh yeah, let’s talk about the Asian girls thing!

Uh oh! (Laughs) Okay, let’s talk about the Asian girl thing, what do you wanna know?

We don’t really have a question around it…

It’s weird, it kinda became like a joke. I had a long term relationship with a Fillipino girl.

Niran’s missus is Filipino!

CG: It’s very tongue-in-cheek! It was also a symptom of me not liking dealing with the politics [of dating girls of other races]. When I would date an Asian girl, it wouldn’t even matter. I feel bad now, because if I meet a girl and she happens to be Asian and I might like her, all she’s gonna think is like I’ve just got a fetish!

Buy Camp by Childish Gambino on iTunes. Follow Donald Glover on Twitter.